Where I Cram My Ideas


Friday, July 20, 2007

A Delicate Issue

Criticizing the Religious
We live in a time in which people very similar to me criticize organized religion for the evils it causes. I ran into an article that challenged that claim. The rejoinder it provides, though, is not to dispel the claim, but to instead point the finger at secularist regimes.

I've been known to say that some secularist ideologies provide excuses to justify murder, while religion provides actual motivation. For instance, this essay pointed out that
"The fact is that more than 100 million human beings were killed by secularist regimes and ideologies in the last century."
This is accurate. At the same time, does such a secularist ideologist say 'Oh my goodness, there is no God! That makes me want to kill innocents!' Not exactly. Does a religious fanatic say 'Oh my goodness, I get dozens of virgins of my own if I destroy evil westerners! That makes me want to kill evil westerners!' Actually, yes.

However, it is not the religion or even the fact that this person is religious that deserves condemnation. The individual who wants to kill others in the name of his religion is simply operating on evil desires. He was not raised responsibly - he was told that killing others for the greater good of God was a good thing to do. When a religion teaches such things, we can criticize such a teaching, and the religion for teaching such a thing.

Bigotry is morally impermissible. Classifying all religious people in one bunch and calling them nutcases is inadvisable and, more importantly, false. Blaming them for all atrocities in the past (the strawman that the essayist raised in his introduction) is very inaccurate as well.

Just One More Motivating Factor
There are enough motivating factors for evil. Religious and secular people alike experience drives for power, money, fame... these things are not just excuses that 'allow' people to justify their evil actions - these are reasons for action. Religious beliefs can provide similar reasons for action.

Remember, though, that desires are what drive people to action. Beliefs shape what people do to accomplish those desires.

My parents are both religious people, but their convictions do not cause them to do evil. In fact, they're both basically saints. The reason for that is that their desires drive them to do good things: to provide for their children, to help others, to promote cooperation in the community, to responsibly educate, to exhibit honesty and integrity. Their beliefs influence how they go about this. My mom told me the other day that she originally wanted to enter the ministry because she 'wanted to help people.' She didn't - she's an educator - but this goes to show that she was raised with the desire to help people, and the belief that religion was necessary to fulfill that desire.

That right there is another reason to criticize religious teaching - the indoctrination that only religion provides a path to helping others and/or behaving ethically. Some teachings are good, admittedly - the poor and the helpless are to be helped, peace is an ideal, self-control and honesty... so criticize the teaching, rather than the religion or the religious.

Ultimately
To the author of the essay: The title of your essay was 'Religion is not to Blame,' yet you did nothing to demonstrate this. You simply pointed a finger and said 'Well, secularist ideologies killed more people!' If this was your point, then yes, religion is still to blame. Just because something else killed more does not make the other more blameworthy. Cancer and AIDS have killed more; does that excuse the actions of religious and secular persecutors?

26 comments:

Dan Marvin said...

I agree with a great deal of what you said in your delicate issue. I believe that religions acually are of the devil and are evil. bad tree = bad fruit.

The mere fact there are different denominations negates the one true way as talked about in Jeremiah 32:38-40. We are the body of Christ and a devided house cannot stand. I would go as far as to say that they (religions) are actually forsaking the assembly together talked about in Hebrews 10:25.

I have found that atheist do the same as that author Adrain Sobers did but about the existance of God.

Atheist claim to prove that God doesn't exist by stating that the bible has mistakes in it or christians are hypocrites.

An analogy would be a debate about: Is there a president of the United States.

My position would be YES there is a President of the United States and furthermore his name is George W. Bush.

The Athesits position would be NO there is no President of the United States and to prove it let me tell you about the failed policies George W. Bush in Iraq and giving tax breaks to the rich and not the poor.

This is not an augment about the President of the United States not existing this is merely gripes, your complaints about the President of the United States but that does nothing to prove that the President doesn't exist, and the same is true for Christianity.

To sit and argue about the Bible and how it's full of mistakes or that there are different interpretations or translations or God allows certain evils to happen or that christians are bad people by there actions, etc. That is not an argument to prove that God does not exist. These are complaints and gripes.

Now if you want to have a debate about the historicity or the authenticity and reliability of scriptures then fine we can do that
and you can bring those things to the table. If the debate was about the problem with Christianity or the faultiness of Christianity then
fine bring those assaults if you want to. But to prove your position of the existence of a GOD or the belief there of this does not prove that God does not exist.

If you are sitting on a fence claiming it is possible there is a God then you are agnostic and do not "Know" for sure, but if you claim to be an Atheist back up your position and prove there is No God because you have a belief of no existence of a God. Folding your arms (in a debate) and repeating prove your position Dan, prove it Dan, this is not any way how to debate. You must state reasons for your position. By the way, what are your reasons g-man for claiming the atheist label? Keep asking questions to God not man. Stay in his word.

For Him,
Dan

G-man said...

I feel like I'm falling behind on my comments... who would've dreamed I'd have people actually reading what I write :)

The most interesting thing I noticed you say is that all denominations are actually Christians - just divided among one another. I find that to be a very tolerant viewpoint, and I applaud you for it.

I'm unfamiliar with Adrian Sobers. However, it is interesting to understand the implications of a flawed Bible and a Christian who acts like regular people. Imagining the perfect creator of the universe giving us a flawed book as the only revelation for life is a stretch. Likewise, Christians are supposed to be 'born again' and washed clean by the blood of Jesus. We are supposed to know them by their miracles - they will be bitten by snakes and survive, they will speak in foreign tongues, they will heal the sick.

So I imagine that's where this line of thinking can be used to try to disprove the *Christian* God. As for a god in general, you're right that it's sort of pointless.

"Now if you want to have a debate about the historicity or the authenticity and reliability of scriptures then fine we can do that"
_Oh goodness, I'm not really interested. I tend to philosophize more than actually learn :) Although the latter tends to help the former, of course. Here's the question, I think: yeah, maybe you can establish that the scriptures are very reliable. But... why do you and I have to rely upon what others have said, when they got to experience it directly? Isn't God just?

"By the way, what are your reasons g-man for claiming the atheist label?"
_Well, actually it is possible there is a God. You have to appreciate the nuances of language. If by "God" I mean "the pencil in front of me," then sure, it's more than possible that it exists. If by "God" you mean an entity that created the universe, then you're certainly right - it is possible for such a god to exist, and it is impossible to disprove such a being, as that is a universal negative.

But that's not what Christians are talking about. They describe a God in detail, claim that it works personally and answers prayers directly; that it allows some people into Heaven and sends the rest to Hell, yet is all-good, all-powerful and all-knowing. It is this God which I don't believe exists. If you'd like, I can detail a few reasons.

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